www.deadline.com - December 30, 2013
ĎWolf Of Wall Streetís Leonardo DiCaprio
On Creating Fact-Based Black Comedy Without Glorifying Crooks
by Mike Fleming Jr
When I emerged from watching The Wolf Of Wall Street, I came away thinking the movie had done for stock brokers what Marathon Man
did for dentists. The Martin Scorsese-directed film stars Leonardo DiCaprio as hedonistic drug-addicted stockbroker conman Jordan
Belfort, who with dimwitted cohorts plunders his way to such decadence and immorality itís a wonder he survived long enough to be
arrested and sent to prison. The three hours of darkly comic debauchery has in some quarters been met with a ďhow dare youĒ
reaction, a polarizing response that could be an issue during awards season for the $100 million film financed by indie Red Granite
and released domestically by Paramount Pictures. The 71-year old Scorsese has provoked that kind of reaction several times in his
career with films ranging from The Last Temptation Of Christ to Goodfellas and Casino, the latter two of which, like Wolf, left
behind bitter victims of the mayhem perpetrated by the filmís main characters. The shrapnel is new to DiCaprio, who both starred in
and produced the film through his increasingly prolific Appian Way shingle. Here, DiCaprio discusses that fallout and the challenge
of trying to uncompromisingly depict bad guys without judging them.
DEADLINE: Appian Way was just building steam when you got involved in producing Jordan Belfortís memoir Wolf Of Wall Street. Why did
Belfortís story fit into the profile of movies you wanted to make as producer, while sparking you as an actor as well?
DICAPRIO: Coming into it as an actor, I set my entire production company up in order to find material that not only was interesting
and out of the box from an actorís perspective, but that could be developed that way from the original source material. A lot of
times, Iíd gone through the process of getting a great book or finding a great story, and then too many people get their hands on it
and it turns into something entirely different. It is very difficult to reverse that process. When I first picked this up, I found it
a cautionary tale written by Jordan. His life is much different now, but heís looking back and reflecting on a very hedonistic time
period where he gave into every possible temptation. Greed was the main motivating factor, and he was unapologetic. He realized heíd
completely lost his way, but there was an honesty to it that you rarely find. You rarely find someone willing to vilify themselves
so completely and not trying to create false enemies to blame so they donít have to look inward. Everything Jordan wrote in this
book was so raw. The crash of 2008 was a huge motivator for me as well to want to really see whatís going on in our culture that
creates people like this. Greed is a timeless virtue. Iíve been talking about greed a lot in interviews, and you canít pinpoint it
to any specific time period, or any civilization or even just human beings. Itís a fundamental characteristic of survival. As we are
progressing into the future, things are moving faster and we are way more destructive than weíve ever been. We have not evolved at
DEADLINE: So that was your motivation to tell this story?
DICAPRIO: I wanted to make an unapologetic film looking at a character in a very entertaining and funny way, and isnít passing
judgment on them but is saying, look, this is obviously a cautionary tale, and what is it that creates people like this? I thought
that could somehow be a mirror to ourselves. We are all consumers, incessantly consuming as much as we possibly can. I wanted to
make an unapologetic film on the subject matter that didnít give any false sense of empathy for the character, but that instead was
an analysis of man gone awry.
DEADLINE: There has been a lot of media scrutiny that the movie doesnít give a lot of time to lives destroyed by Belfortís greed.
That was clearly a conscious decision by you, Marty Scorsese and Terry Winter. Why did you make that choice?
DICAPRIO: Number one, because we didnít want to take a traditional approach to this film. Number two, we very consciously wanted
this to be an analysis of the temptation and intoxication of the world of money and indulgence and hedonism. We wanted to take the
audience on that journey, and so we donít ever see the wake of that destruction until the very end, where they implode. It was a
very conscious decision on our part, so the experience would be almost like taking a drug. To me, if youíre an audience member, you
want to be completely submerged in the actual film. We wanted it to be from these peoplesí perspective, an understanding of the very
nature of who these people are, and why this can be so intoxicating and so exciting for them. By no means is this film a
glorification or some sort of promotion of this lifestyle and those who say it is are missing the point entirely. These people are
what they are and we didnít want to give them any false sense of sympathy. Jordan Belfort is in that scene with the detective, [Kyle
Chandler] and that guy says it all right there. He says, ĎSome of these Wall Street guys I bust, their fathers were like that, and
they learned it from their fathers before them. But you, Jordan, got this way all on your own.í These guys donít apologize for their
actions. Thatís very much to me an analysis of that culture. Not all of Wall Street, but the people in that business sector who have
no concern for anything except themselves. I think anyone who thinks this is a celebration of that, theyíve missed the point of the
DEADLINE: Martin Scorsese probably saw that kind of reaction after he made true crime stories like Goodfellas and Casino, which were
similar in that you watched bad guys take their journey and after you heard reactions from victims and relatives of victims. This is
new territory for you, though. How much does it concern you that some people havenít gotten that message, that Wolf is about a man
who loses his soul?
DICAPRIO: It was actually a huge learning process for me. Look, Marty and I, we donít like these guys, letís put it that way. None of
the people that made this movie likes these people, at all. We had a lot of conversations at the beginning about whether we could
make them so unlikeable that people would completely not identify with them, or not care. Marty said to me, ĎIíve done many movies
like this. I donít want to pass judgment on these people. I want to show them for what they are.í If you look at Goodfellas, there
is an attractiveness to that lifestyle, but itís never condoning that behavior. Itís getting you, as a human being, to more closely
understand what these people are like, and to understand maybe something within ourselves that could also be attracted to that world.
He said you are okay as long as you portray people as authentically as you possibly can and donít try to give some false sense of
sympathy and donít apologize for their actions. Just say look, this is who I am. Jordan says that, right off the bat. ĎI was a money
crazed little prick, I was pissed off because I was just shy of making $20 million a week.í Heís presenting himself at that guy. And
that guy exists in our culture, in many forms. Itís in all of us, in a way. To me, that is original filmmaking, a film that is
taking some chances. Not everyone is going to get it, but I feel like as the history of cinema unfolds, like it has with all Scorsese
movies when we become desensitized, those films get imitated, and his films become films we remember. I hope this becomes one of
DEADLINE: You could have played this as straight drama. At what point did it become clear this should be a laugh out loud black
DICAPRIO: To tell you the truth, we knew that the very nature of what they were doing was at times ridiculously funny, but at no
time did we ever say, we are making a comedy. These people were having an outrageously good time at the expense of other people.
They were living in a Roman empire while other people were suffering. The intoxication of that is what was interesting to us. Now,
we didnít set out to say, okay, this is going to be hilarious. In the screenplay, the very nature of what they were doing was so
ridiculous and absurd it needed to be laughed at. When you catch yourself in the middle of it and say, what are these people doing,
theyíre absurd and letís look behind the curtain to where this is coming from and whoís suffering, it is dark comedy in that respect.
Itís funny but itís not funny.
DEADLINE: There seemed to be little touchstone reality checks, like the low level employee who cut off her hair to make ten grand for
a boob job, or when Belfort tries to make a drug-fueled escape and his daughter bangs her head on the dashboard. Was that an attempt
to occasionally remind there were victims here?
DICAPRIO: We wanted people specifically to understand the mindset. During that time period, none of those guys gave a crap about who
they were screwing over. They only cared about themselves and their own hedonistic enjoyment and the accumulation of more wealth,
and giving into any possible indulgence. Yes, Marty brilliantly holds onto that shot of the woman, holding a bundle of money in her
hand with half of her head shaved off. He kept holding on that and only after the fifth viewing did I say, wow, those are his subtle
ways of reminding us about our actions. But to me, this is a movie thatís much different. Itís outside of the box. Weíve seen
hundreds of movies that have a much more traditional approach to this. Iím sorry for anyone who may misinterpret that, but this is
absolutely an indictment of this world and a cautionary tale. More than that, itís something that is in the very fabric of our
culture, the very fabric of the United States. That, to me, is a powerful film. It is exploring human nature.
DEADLINE: Despite having you and Scorsese, this movie took years to mobilize. A three hour hard R movie with debauchery galore makes
that understandable. When you were looking for backing, what things would you not compromise on which might have gotten you funded
DICAPRIO: Well, we almost did this movie once before, on a different scale. But I think Marty was already feeling the resistance to
the very genre and the wayÖif youíre going to give Marty Scorsese a screenplay like this, you know youíre going to see something
rough, hard core, and really out there. Thatís exactly why people want to go see his films. He started that with Mean Streets. There
was no film out there like Mean Streets, before Mean Streets came out. If youíre going to give him this material, heís got to be
able to have the artistic freedom to do what he does. There was a general attitude of, okay, letís start having conversations about
how to sanitize this a little bit. How we can cut some of the excess in this world and manipulate the script a bit? Ultimately, that
was a turn off for him. If he was going to do this, he was going to have to do it all the way. Iíve referenced Caligula here. If
youíre going to show it, then show it in all of its absurd glory. Finally, we got financiers in Red Granite that said, look, we
think there is a market out there for stuff like this. And films like this should be done and there should be people out there
supporting movies like this. They said, push the envelope, donít pull punches or sugarcoat it. I told Marty, look, we can have
artistic freedom here, which never happens on a film of this scale and subject matter. Weíre never going to get this opportunity
again. I donít know know if we ever will get an opportunity like this ever. I think it is an anomaly.
DEADLINE: Martyís movies Hugo, Wolf, and his next film Silence will mark three in a row where the financing came from outside the
studio system. It reminds me years ago when studios stopped backing Woody Allen because he didnít even want them reading his script.
What does it say about the studios that Scorsese has to go outside the major studios to get his movies made?
DICAPRIO: Look, Iíve seen a shift in the films that I can get financed. I suppose people might assume the two of us can get most
films we want to make financed, but it is a challenge. I donít think The Aviator would get financed today and I donít think Blood
Diamond would be financed today. Even in the last eight years, itís like a gear shifted. If you want to do something of this scale,
if you want to make an American epic, it had better be at a certain price. Anything above a certain line has to have the traditional
things we see in blockbusters. Now, the other thing that has gone on in the last few years is the emergence of people who are fans
of cinema, true cinephiles who love movies and certain filmmakers and want to support them and roll the dice on them. Thank God for
those people, because I donít otherwise see films like this getting made, at all.
DEADLINE: It certainly is a unique movie. I laughed harder here than in many comedies Iíve seen, then later felt guilty when I
considered the victims. Was that part of Scorseseís goal, to suck you into this world of charismatic con men and their crazy antics,
only to reconsider later and think, why was I so entertained by that?
DICAPRIO: That theme has been prevalent in Martyís work, since Mean Streets. Itís about the pursuit of the American dream, about the
re-creation of oneself to achieve that dream, and the hustle that it takes to get there. I see that theme in so many of his films.
Heís talking about a darker side of our culture in all these movies, and yet heís vigilant about not passing judgment on them. He
leaves that up to the audience. Thatís why it boggles my mind a bit that anyone would ever not realize this is an indictment of that
world. I donít even want to use the word cautionary tale because you see what happens to these people in the end. You see Jake
LaMotta in Raging Bull, or Ray Liottaís Henry Hill in Goodfellas, or Jordan Belfort. Itís all there, the intoxication of these worlds
and the understanding of our very nature that makes us want to go in that direction, and what happens when we do.
DEADLINE: Your last movies were directed by Scorsese, Quentin Tarantino, Clint Eastwood, Baz Luhrmann, Christopher Nolan. If you are
paying attention beyond your own performance, this has got to be the best master class an aspiring director could have. How close
are you to getting behind the camera yourself?
DICAPRIO: It does appeal to me. Iíve been very fortunate to be able to have worked with a lot of great directors Iíve learned a lot
from. Iíve gotten to see all the mechanics of what has to go into making a great movie and so itís daunting to consider doing it
myself. Iím sure Iíll try it one of these days, but it has to be something that moves me so much that thereís no one else on earth
who could do it except for me, or a film nobody else wants to do that I see something magical in and it gets me behind the camera.
Hopefully that will happen, but I donít have that piece of material in my hands. Yet.